Topic Title: Richfield slower than Trinity in BF3 in side by side test ....why?
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Created On: 11/24/2013 09:44 AM
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 11/24/2013 09:44 AM
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VV00DY
Peon

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/23/2013

Graphics Card
- Richfield A10-6800K against Trinity A10-5800K

AMD Catalyst Driver Version, and Driver History
- MSI's latest package includes 13.152.0.0000 (Catalyst 13.9)

- later updated to 13.11b 9.4 with the same results


Operating System
- Trinity....Windows 8.0 x64
- Richfield...Windows 8.1 x64

Issue Details
- I built two nearly identical systems (even the same case and PSU) but the first one I built last year based on Trinity A10 and now another nearly identical system on Richfield A10. I installed a clean install of 8.1 Pro on the new computer but hadn't updated the old one from 8.0 Pro.  Other than 8.0 the old system is up to date and is running the same chipset and catalyst drivers.

I experimented with driver versions up to the latest betas on both systems with no significant changes in performance.

Both systems installed Battlefield 3 and configured the settings identically both in catalyst and in game....same resolutions, details, AF, etc, etc.

There is consistently about a 25% performance advantage measured with Fraps on the older Trinity system over the Richfield and I can't nail it down.

I was also getting some stability issues on Richfield...occassional reboots in game not happenning on the older system.  They are very rare though.

 

Motherboard or System Make & Model
- MSI FM2A75MA-E35 on both systems. 

Power Supply
- both systems have identical PSU from the case... 
Xion 300W Micro ATX 720P

Display Device(s) and Connection(s) Used
- A variety of low resolution monitors including two HDTVs running at 1366x768, and a 1600x900 Samsung monitor.
- Using HDMI and VGA and mixing it up between the two systems at various resolutions....in other words, switching displays made no difference.

Applications and Games

- latest installs of Battlefield 3 downloaded from Origin with a few days apart from each other.  No addons.

CPU Details
- Richfield A10-6800K against Trinity A10-5800K
- No overclocking other than manually setting the speed and timings of the faster DDR3 1866 on the Richfield system to manufacturer specs.

Motherboard BIOS Version
- The newer system running Bios version 2.2 out of the box while the older Trinity system is on an older BIOS version 1.2...same BIOS settings...no overclock....EUFI

System Memory Type & Amount
- Trinity system...

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D

- Richfield system....

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL9S

See?...the new system even has faster memory with manually set and verified (with CPU-z) timings and speeds.


Additional Hardware
- Both systems have identical TP-Link PCI Wireless cards and both systems have a single mechanical drive.

Additional Details
- This is a clean new install of 8.1.  I've verified all necessary drivers are running.  I've tried changing the AMD chipset and catalyst drivers.
- While testing I've monitored system performance, temperatures, settings, using task manager, CPU-Z, GPU-Z, Fraps, HWMonitor.  Both CPUs (APUs) and graphics systems are running at maximum rated performance settings.  Memory is running at correct speeds, Graphics card utilization is at 99-100% and CPU utilization is normal across four threads close to 100% but consistent on both systems at far as utilization.

The Richfield system of course shows slightly higher clock speeds and memory speeds

- I've explored system performance and Windows event veiwer for unusual acitivity.  I've checked for additional processes running in the background.  I've pulled my hair out ensuring there is nothing wrong with this new system and all graphics settings, resolutions are the same.  It just runs this game about 25% slower for no apparant reason.

The performance difference is consistent across every test I can throw at it....Unigine, SisSandra, Cinebench.  There seems to be a consistent across the board performance hit on the new system of between 25-30 percent wether it's a CPU, GPU, or even memory bandwidth test.

I've reset the BIOS to default several times, relaxing the memory timings just makes the system even slower still.

 

What is going on?  Do I have a faulty APU?

 11/24/2013 11:56 AM
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WMudrockJr
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I would think that the A75 chipset would be the problem. My mother board has not listed the Richland APU as being supported. I think MSI FM2-A85XA-G65 which has the A85X chipset would be a better match.



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 11/27/2013 10:49 AM
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VV00DY
Peon

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The chipset is officially supported but I've noticed something which I think is the actual problem....

 

(probably should have posted this in the CPU forum)

 

The Northbridge which should be running at 1800MHz is only running at 1500MHz when under load.  Even if I manually set the northbridge frequency in the BIOS it only occassionally goes up to 1800 and most of the time, even during stress testing it's only running at 1500MHz.

I think there is a bug in MSI's firmware or the APU chipset drivers.

 11/27/2013 01:27 PM
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stumped
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Originally posted by: VV00DY The chipset is officially supported but I've noticed something which I think is the actual problem....

 

(probably should have posted this in the CPU forum)

 

The Northbridge which should be running at 1800MHz is only running at 1500MHz when under load.  Even if I manually set the northbridge frequency in the BIOS it only occassionally goes up to 1800 and most of the time, even during stress testing it's only running at 1500MHz.

I think there is a bug in MSI's firmware or the APU chipset drivers.

You can try updating the chipset drivers to eliminate them as the problem.



-------------------------

Intel I7 960 @ 3.87ghz *Intel DX58SO *AMD R9 290 4gb *Corsair TX650M *2x4gb Corsair XMS3 *WD Black 1TB *Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ***Asus N71Jq laptop *Intel I7 720QM Processor *Mobility Radeon HD5730 1gb *8gb Ram *Windows 7 64bit ** Toshiba P75-A7200 * Intel I7-4700MQ * Windows 8.1 64bit 


***** cetera fallunt, ludere mortuus ******

 02/01/2014 12:54 PM
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J__
Peon

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i'm having this problem too on my a10 5800k Fm2-a85xma-e35 board. Any resolution to your problem? I'm getting 4.8 WEI in aero, 25fps in WoW, and choppy windows performance. Feels like no graphics driver is installed although I have all 13.12 CCC drivers. Everything looks fine under CPU-z/GPU-z UNTIL I saw the NB frequency stepping down to 1400-1500mhz from 1800mhz while gpu is in use. Been pulling my hair out over a week on this problem.

 

there's 2 possibilities, either the boards can't handle anything about 1600 ram, or the updated 2.0+ bios is causing this issue. I have 2133 ripjawsx and v2.2 bios.

I don't think it's the cpu as I've rma'ed my initial cpu thinking that was the problem, but the replacement has the same issue. Unless I'm super unlucky, I'm confident it's the motherboard.

my mobo also has a current buzz around from the cpu when it's under load with cool'n quiet turned on. Turn off cool'n quiet and C6 and the buzz is gone. However the poor graphics is still unresolved... 

 

msg'ed MSI and they told me this is normal for the APU and told me to get a discrete video card for better performance. Although I'm not expecting GTX performance from the A10's onboard, this is NOT normal for this chip. I hate how they are blaming the apu when something is wrong on their end.

 

This seem to be a major problem as many reviews on the site that I bought My parts from (www.jd.com in China) said they were dissappointed with the a10 because they are only getting 4.8 in WEI. I guess they didn't bother troubleshooting (or don't know how) and submit feedback to MSI.

 

still no resolution =(



Edited: 02/01/2014 at 01:35 PM by J__
 02/01/2014 01:36 PM
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J__
Peon

Posts: 16
Joined: 01/25/2014

Originally posted by: stumped
Originally posted by: VV00DY The chipset is officially supported but I've noticed something which I think is the actual problem....

 

 

 

(probably should have posted this in the CPU forum)

 

 

 

The Northbridge which should be running at 1800MHz is only running at 1500MHz when under load.  Even if I manually set the northbridge frequency in the BIOS it only occassionally goes up to 1800 and most of the time, even during stress testing it's only running at 1500MHz.

 

I think there is a bug in MSI's firmware or the APU chipset drivers.

 

 

You can try updating the chipset drivers to eliminate them as the problem.

 

 

these drivers didn't work for me. still the same problem after installing it

 02/08/2014 02:37 AM
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J__
Peon

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Joined: 01/25/2014

I've managed to solve this problem: change motherboards. Returned the MSI and got a gigabyte F2A88xm-D3H and everything is normal. Normal graphics, WEI score of 6.7 in both aero and 3D. Also no 'buzzing' noise from the CPU with cool'n quiet is turned on. The MSI had this high pitched buzzing noise from the cpu when the voltage was throttled by cool'n quiet.

 

Somethings wrong with those MSI fm2 boards/bios. Don't get it

 02/08/2014 02:30 PM
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AMDforMe
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Thanks for reporting the issues with the MSI mobo. It may have been a bad mobo in your case but if the problem occurs for numerous people then we can suspect a bad design or some production issue.



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