Topic Title: A10 6800 Very disappointing graphics. Is it faulty?
Topic Summary: MY graphics are very poor on video playback. Is this a faulty chip or just rubbish?
Created On: 12/16/2013 08:08 AM
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 02/19/2014 09:13 AM
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TwistedVanity
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These are the current BIOS listed on the ASUS site - my original BIOS was the very last one listed 

Think I should experiment with different BIOS versions ??

Rhapdog - you have the same board don't you - whats your NorthBridge like when you're gaming???

 02/19/2014 09:29 AM
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TwistedVanity
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PS when I ran the rendering test in GPU-Z "?" like you suggested I got this:-

(plus pc became mega slow and unresponsive) 

I also noticed my CPU core speed dropped to 2059.67Mhz and stayed there - it didn't fluctuate any higher at all during the 10 minutes I ran the rendering

 02/19/2014 09:53 AM
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J__
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Originally posted by: TwistedVanity PS when I ran the rendering test in GPU-Z "?" like you suggested I got this:-

 

(plus pc became mega slow and unresponsive) 

 

I also noticed my CPU core speed dropped to 2059.67Mhz and stayed there - it didn't fluctuate any higher at all during the 10 minutes I ran the rendering

 

 

 

 

 

the cpuz core speed looks normal as the gpuz test doesn't test the cpu. However your GPUz gpu core and memory clock at 0.0mhz looks not right. I don't know if that's a software issue with your gpuz or hardware. On mine They showed the proper values of 800mhz for gpu core clock (I forgot wat the memory clock was but it wasn't 0). Also the 1544mhz NB frequency is being throttled. It should stay at 1800mhz +-5%.

 

Try reverting bios first, if no luck. See if you can get your hands on another a10 6800k chip to see if your chip is faulty. If a different chip still gives same results, last step is to change motherboard.

 

In my case I swapped 2 different chips and still got the bad results, then changing the mobo solved the issue as I didn't think I was unlucky enough to get 2 bad chips in a row.

 

I just don't want you to change the mobo and it turns out to be a messed up cpu that caused the problem

 

Also, go into bios and try to manually force the northbridge to be at 1800mhz instead of auto if you have such option. On my faulty board, no matter what I set it to it would still throttle back down to ~1499mhz

 

here's the original thread by another member with the same issue that made me speculate a problem with the bios:

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=483&threadid=169572&enterthread=y

 

I'm now thinking this might actually be a problem with data from AMD with the richland chips. AMD works with mobo manufacturers to create bios to support their cpus. However according to that thread, when the bios was for trinity chips, everything worked fine, then bios updates for richland came out and the problem seem to occur. Same thing on my faulty board, my bios was updated to support richland, at first I thought it was MSI's own R&D problem but your board is an ASUS so the chances of both companies own R&D coming up with the exact same problem is a bit far fetched. My new working board is an 88x chipset updated for kevari, so maybe the new kevari data is not bugged like the richland.

Does that kind of make sense? I don't know, it's all speculation by me from my experience and testing, could be all completely wrong as I'm just an average joe and not a developer, but I can only tell you what I did to fix my problem and hopefully it'll help you in solving your issue.

Building computers can be a pain in the ass as you don't really know what's wrong and not compatible, just have to test each part out and rule out variants. It's easy for people without problems to tell you this and that and your problem doesn't exist because they're not experiencing it, hell I even had MSI tell me this is how it's supposed to work when my system was messed up, but for me I want my system to work exactly how it should no matter how expensive or cheap it is. Otherwise I'd just buy a mac and not have to deal with incompatable parts.



Edited: 02/19/2014 at 10:17 AM by J__
 02/19/2014 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by: TwistedVanity These are the current BIOS listed on the ASUS site - my original BIOS was the very last one listed 

 

Think I should experiment with different BIOS versions ??

 

Rhapdog - you have the same board don't you - whats your NorthBridge like when you're gaming???

 

 

 

i believe rhapdog is on bios 6104 according to his first post on page one. Try that one out if you haven't. But have you flashed bios' before? if you haven't read up on it, if you don't do it properly you'll fry your board. Also some people say to never flash bios through windows as it's more risky, but I've only flashed via usb boot key so I can't comment on how risky a windows bios flash is.

 02/19/2014 12:43 PM
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rhapdog
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DO NOT Flash the BIOS. There is nothing wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with your board.


The NorthBridge clock is doing what it is supposed to be doing when it is set to Auto. You will have to manually set it where you want it, otherwise, the MB will set it according to best energy efficiency.

Also, the issue with your CPU throttling (dropping down to 2000 and back up to 4000, etc.) is due to the system trying to keep your CPU cool, because it is trying to overheat most likely.

The A10-6800K defaults to throttling between 2000 and 4100 depending on how much horsepower the system thinks you need at the moment, and will also throttle back if the CPU gets to hot to give it a chance to cool off.

The default heat sink is sorry if you are going to do any intense gaming. I removed mine and installed a Cooler Master Seidon 120XL. It was a gift for Christmas, and I never pass up a free item if it is good quality.

If you want to stop the CPU throttling, go into CCC, click on the Performance tab on the left, then CPU Power. You will see a range of processor speeds listed, and a long bar below it that has grabber handles on both side. Slide the left handle to the right to get it to the "minimum" that you want your CPU to run at. Slide the right one to the left to get it to the maximum you want to run at.

Mine shows a 2000 MHz - 4800 MHz, because I have overclocked my APU to 4800, and my iGPU (8670D) to 1085. However, when I am gaming, I go in and move the left slider all the way to the right to keep it at maximum. When I'm done gaming, I like it to run more "efficiently" because I have to pay for the electricity.

If you're going to run it full speed, and then run intense games, you will need to upgrade the stock heatsink and fan to something better. There are a number of good products out there, but keep in mind I went with the liquid cooling solution, because it was near impossible to find a good enough heatsink/fan that didn't seriously interfere with the memory heatsink fins. Okay, seriously interfere is an understatement, they would have flat out taken out the memory modules if I had tried to mount them. My case wasn't big enough to handle one of the very tall ones either, so I had that issue on the other side.

Keep a watch on your temperatures while you're gaming once you've sped it up, and make sure it doesn't rise too high. Use something like HWinfo to monitor CPU temp and GPU-Z for the iGPU temp. Don't trust the temp for the GPU that HWinfo gives. GPU-Z is right. For me, until I upgraded the heatsink and before I ever started overclocking, my CPU/GPU both were overheating, especially the GPU to critical levels, because I had disabled their ability to throttle down because it caused too many gaming issues. Bottom line is for casual use, this is an awesome APU. For gaming, get a good CPU Cooler.

BIOS is the place to fix your northbridge option. You'll have to take it off of Auto and set it manually to 1800 MHz. That will stop it from going back and forth. All versions of BIOS are the same on this.

Again, DO NOT flash your BIOS to an older version. I'm afraid J___ is giving some very bad advice on this and the advice to swap motherboards is bad as well. You don't jump to an expensive option until you understand the options you have now. You always want to configure your BIOS before you declare your BIOS or Motherboard bad. That goes for any brand of motherboard, period. Anyone that says "Oh, it didn't work the first try? Try another brand and see if that works" should have looked to make sure the PC was plugged in first. I saw someone buy a new power supply once, get home with it only to discover the other power supply wasn't plugged into the wall outlet. Don't fall for that. Let's troubleshoot and get what you've got working.

And J___, I've been repairing and programming computers for the last 32+ years, so I'm not being a tool, I'm just using common sense in a thread where bad advice has been given. I don't want to see TwistedVanity have to pay for extra parts that are unnecessary and I don't want to see him brick a perfectly good MB with a bad BIOS flash attempt. This issue can be solved without throwing money at the problem.

 



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“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 02/19/2014 01:54 PM
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J__
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Originally posted by: rhapdog BIOS is the place to fix your northbridge option. You'll have to take it off of Auto and set it manually to 1800 MHz. That will stop it from going back and forth. All versions of BIOS are the same on this.

 

Again, DO NOT flash your BIOS to an older version. I'm afraid J___ is giving some very bad advice on this and the advice to swap motherboards is bad as well. You don't jump to an expensive option until you understand the options you have now. You always want to configure your BIOS before you declare your BIOS or Motherboard bad. That goes for any brand of motherboard, period. Anyone that says "Oh, it didn't work the first try? Try another brand and see if that works" should have looked to make sure the PC was plugged in first. I saw someone buy a new power supply once, get home with it only to discover the other power supply wasn't plugged into the wall outlet. Don't fall for that. Let's troubleshoot and get what you've got working.

 

And J___, I've been repairing and programming computers for the last 32+ years, so I'm not being a tool, I'm just using common sense in a thread where bad advice has been given. I don't want to see TwistedVanity have to pay for extra parts that are unnecessary and I don't want to see him brick a perfectly good MB with a bad BIOS flash attempt. This issue can be solved without throwing money at the problem.

 

 

 

 

Like I mentioned in my above post, I said to try manually setting a northbridge frequency to see if it stops the throttling, in my case it didn't make a difference. And that the cpu jumps are normal results of Cooln'Quiet. I didn't say anything about OP having to start spending cash on new parts, quite the contrary. I'm just telling him options on what I did to solve the exact same problem, which in my case ended in swapping out a mobo which didn't cost me an extra dollar btw, and was far from "Oh, it didn't work the first try? Try another brand and see if that works" as I've literally went through every trouble shooting step known to man before resorting to exchanging.

You have the years of experience i'll give you that but I doubt you know every single problem under the sun with every single setup.

Anyway, let's stop bickering and try to help the poor fella so he can game and use his computer properly



Edited: 02/19/2014 at 02:03 PM by J__
 02/19/2014 02:33 PM
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rhapdog
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You have the years of experience i'll give you that but I doubt you know every single problem under the sun with every single setup.

 

Anyway, let's stop bickering and try to help the poor fella so he can game and use his computer properly

 

Forgive me, here, and please don't take it the wrong way. I have also been a teacher for a number of years, and although I have a lot of knowledge about the workings of computers, I always find myself teaching and explaining things, and wanting to make every detail understood by the simplest person, which is also in part to trying to explain technical things to my wife. My goal is to educate and assist, not target and belittle. I'm sorry if I came across a bit cross. I've been running on very little sleep staying up with a sick daughter.

Now, like I said before, I like to educate. All this is meant in the spirit of education, so please take it in the manner intended.

True, I don't know every solution under the sun. No one does. Knowing steps in troubleshooting helps, though. Swapping out a motherboard is analogous to changing car engines though. Expensive and complicated. It most likely just needs to be tuned. You can't compare MSI, which is well known for being inexpensive and also problematic with motherboards, to ASUS, which the Republic of Gamers count on for the highest reliability and quality.

It is sometimes possible you get a bad motherboard with any brand though. That's why you have to troubleshoot and make sure of the problem first. The particular problems that are being encountered here are not indicitave of a motherboard problem, but of a misconfiguration. This board is very good about allowing everything to be configured, and following those configurations exactly. Many MSI boards, on the other hand, do not like you to configure certain things, and will automatically revert to what they want to do if you try.

@TwistedVanity:

Setting the northbridge to 1800 constant, and disabling the throttling may cause heating issues as I stated before, so use those programs I mentioned to monitor your temps. If you see your temps are getting too high, then you'll need to invest in a better heatsink/fan. I've seen the Cooler Master Seidon 120M, which would do everything you would ever need for cooling, on sale at NewEgg for as low as $49.99 with a $30.00 rebate from Cooler Master at the same time. You have to catch it just right. That gets it for $19.99, because the shipping was free. Cheaper than air if you can catch it right, and my CPU core temps stay below 49c using Prime95 for 3 hours while overclocked to 4800 MHz. The iGPU stays below 56c playing Tomb Raider for hours on end back when I had the iGPU overclocked to 1169MHz.  Then again, I also have great case ventilation. Yet I was getting iGPU temps @ 90c + at times in Tomb Raider with the iGPU clocked at 844 MHz, and CPU temps over 70c using the stock clock. That was with the stock fan/heatsink and stock clock speeds, even with the well ventilated case.



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“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 02/19/2014 03:05 PM
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rhapdog
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I just noticed in those screenshots you provided that you have set the Ai Overclock Tuner to Manual, and boosted the APU Frequency to 103. That's going to also effect your northbridge and give issues. This will boost your memory and CPU both, which is not what you want to do at this time. First, you need to get a stable system before you start any overclocking.

Set the APU Frequency back to 100, then put the Ai Overclock tuner back on Auto for now. 4600 is plenty for now, unless you've already upgraded that fan/heatsink.

Once you get a stable Northbridge, then we'll see about boosting everything else. That APU Frequency boost will also effect voltages, and you can fry things if you don't know what you're doing. I'm stable at 4800MHz with an APU Frequency of 100. I have had it stable with a 52x multiplier at 5200MHz with the CPU never getting above 54c, but I'm not comfortable with the voltages long term, because I want this machine to last as long as possible. If you're looking for shear performance, though, you can consider that if you plan to upgrade every few years anyway.

Backing off the 103 back to 100 may also prevent throttling as much, because of the heating issues that are involved. When you start messing with that APU frequency, the heat starts escalating pretty quickly, so that's the last thing you want to adjust after making sure your system is otherwise stable.

I played Tomb Raider last night at 5300MHz on my APU, for kicks. Never got above 55c. Maybe I'll try to kick it up to 5500 at some point. It helped it to keep up better with my new Radeon HD 7770, and I was getting 95.5 FPS minimum with an average of 125 FPS and maximum of 150 FPS on Ultra in 720p. With TressFX turned on, it dropped me down to the low 30 FPS in Shantytown, though, but it was beautiful. That's what a liquid CPU Cooler will do for you over the Air Coolers. You won't get above 4900 MHz with an air cooler, maybe max to 5000 MHz, but you'll see higher temps with an air cooler.

 



-------------------------

“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 02/19/2014 09:30 PM
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TwistedVanity
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THANKS for the help - apart from the North Bridge everything seems stable. I replaced the stock heatsink with an Artic Freezer 7 Pro almost straight away. The stock heatsink was running at 58C on tick over. Now for normal usage it rarely goes over 25C. My case was classed as a gaming case about 12 years ago extra large rear exhaust fan and two front intake - but I doubt it would do liquid cooling. 

I didn't manually set anything - I used ASUS AII suite and clicked auto tune. Thats what the system set it too. Overclocking both fascinates me and intimidates me in case I blow the board or the chip but I do want to learn how to do it.

But the North Bridge was cutting back when graphics were in play before I set Auto Tune.

Should I reset everything too stock first - or just manually set the northbridge leaving everything as is and see what I get first??

(PS as I had stated I have already flashed the BIOs to the latest version. 6402. I did it via the BIOs, a flash drive and built in EZ flash)

About 15years plus ago I used to build PC's for family friends and work colleagues, though I have never overclocked anything even when I was gaming 10-15years back. However family came along and the last time I did anything serious build wise was the old Socket A's. And BIOS's were much simpler, and memory timing had just 4 slots, not 5 plus another 10 secondary timings - that really threw me. And overclocking manually intimidates me, I have never altered voltages etc before I was always scared of blowing things. The reason I'm after this as best I can for gaming is predominently my lad he wants to download steam and start gaming with friends, and you never know I might find time to start dabbling again.

I doubt I'll do anything until the weekend now busy with family stuff but I'll let you know how I go as soon as I do.

Again thank you



Edited: 02/19/2014 at 10:00 PM by TwistedVanity
 02/20/2014 01:04 AM
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rhapdog
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Your WEI is not being dragged down by the Northbridge frequency. I have set mine at both 1500 and 1800, and there is no difference in the WEI score.

The problem is elsewhere, although setting it manually to 1800 may yield small improvements in overall system performance.

I suspect there is something gone wrong with the clock of the 8670D. Try setting it manually to 950 instead of Auto, and see how that does as well.

I'll await your return on the weekend, though that's when I'm busiest with my family. Actually, I'll be pretty busy with the family until Monday, but will keep check on the thread on a daily basis at least once a day to see if there's any help I can offer.



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“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 03/03/2014 05:49 AM
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TwistedVanity
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Sorry for the delay - major family drama.

 

I've manually set Nrth Bridge to 1800Mhz and my WEI shot up to 6.9. But prior to that, after I had manually set the memory I noticed that VLC video playback would slowly start going out of audio sync. Say If I loaded up 2 or more episodes of supernatural by end of second episode the audio would be out by a couple of seconds. Reset memory to its auto mega slower setting and Audio remains in synch indefinately.

So it must be the memory causing this which is weird. So I've started messing with it. I've just added +1 to each memory setting and I'm going to try that.  - Unless anyone can think of anything else that woould cause VLC player to do this?

 

My WEI before I manually set my NorthBridge

After I manually set my Northbridge to 1800Mhz

:-

 

 03/03/2014 10:17 AM
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J__
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Originally posted by: TwistedVanity Sorry for the delay - major family drama.

 

 

 

I've manually set Nrth Bridge to 1800Mhz and my WEI shot up to 6.9. But prior to that, after I had manually set the memory I noticed that VLC video playback would slowly start going out of audio sync. Say If I loaded up 2 or more episodes of supernatural by end of second episode the audio would be out by a couple of seconds. Reset memory to its auto mega slower setting and Audio remains in synch indefinately.

 

So it must be the memory causing this which is weird. So I've started messing with it. I've just added +1 to each memory setting and I'm going to try that.  - Unless anyone can think of anything else that woould cause VLC player to do this?

 

 

 

My WEI before I manually set my NorthBridge

 

 

After I manually set my Northbridge to 1800Mhz

 

:-

 

 

 

 

Nice! if setting NB manually to 1800mhz works and stable then all is good. For me it didn't work so I concluded my mobo was messed up and surely changing it fixed it. 

Try just selecting XMP profile 1 for the ram, and don't manually set the timings. Running auto XMP profile should get you at 2133mhz, 9-11-11-31 timings for your ram. See if setting auto XMP profile helps with VLC's sync issue, can't really help you there as I don't seem to have that problem and am not sure if ram timing is causing it.

 03/04/2014 08:53 AM
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rhapdog
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Originally posted by: J__

 

Try just selecting XMP profile 1 for the ram, and don't manually set the timings. Running auto XMP profile should get you at 2133mhz, 9-11-11-31 timings for your ram. See if setting auto XMP profile helps with VLC's sync issue, can't really help you there as I don't seem to have that problem and am not sure if ram timing is causing it.

 

I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread, perhaps I'm mistaken, though. However, this particular board does not read the XMP profiles of the particular RAM being used. That is the issue that caused us to set it manually to start with.

------------------------------

@TwistedVanity:

I've recently had issues with VLC getting real choppy after changing some computer settings, causing video stutter and audio issues. I ran VLC portable and there were no issues there, and after running several other video players, I determined something must have happened to my VLC install. I downloaded a fresh zipped copy of the current version I was using, and unzipped it to a temporary file path. I then ran a full binary compare of the files only to discover there were no corruptions. It was a misconfiguration issue for some reason. Don't ask me to explain, because I know nothing of the internal workings of VLC, I am just a casual user of it.

When I did a full uninstall using Revo Uninstaller paired with a registry clean, then reinstalled the program, all the issues disappeared.

What changed, you may ask, to start the issues? I raised my northbridge frequency. That was the only changes I made to the system when the problems started to occur.

I can't explain why this happened, especially since the portable version doesn't exibit that issue. But it took a good clean install to fix the VLC problem for me. You might try that before you do too much fiddling with hardware. It could be that VLC originally configured itself to run with slower RAM and NorthBridge, and doesn't check system speeds each time it is run in order to boost load time, which would explain why the portable version doesn't suffer the same issues when changing hardware.

I also had to reinstall VLC when I put in a new graphics card. Honestly, if VLC weren't so convenient to use the rest of the time, these issues would have made me jump to something else, except all the "something else's" are a lot worse with other issues or lack of features that I need.

If reinstalling VLC doesn't work, then work with your timings. However, if you are stable in every other way, like with Prime95, then the timings aren't your issue, VLC is.

 



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“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 03/07/2014 02:24 AM
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TwistedVanity
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Cheers that makes sense. I'll re-install VLC player. Though I still prefer version 1 where you can increase playback speed, none of the later versions seem to have that feature anymore.

PS Thank you for all the help

 03/07/2014 10:29 AM
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rhapdog
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Not to worry, as VLC 2.1.3 (as other version) still does increased and decreased playback speed, with the audio in tact. It's not as easy to find, but still there.

Look under Playback->Speed, and there it is.

You can add the faster/slower buttons to the buttons at the bottom easy enough as well, which is what I did. Go to "Tools->Customize Interface", where it will bring up the Toolbars editor. Drag the Faster and Slower buttons from the Toolbar Elements section on the left to where you want them to appaer on the right and drop them there.  When you click close, it will be there on the main window.

Ah, well, if nothing else, at least you learned VLC still does what you always wanted it to do.



-------------------------

“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

 03/12/2014 03:35 PM
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TwistedVanity
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cool I'll try that. PS uninstalling and reinstalling vlc player version 1 fixed the audio sync issues thank you

 03/12/2014 04:34 PM
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rhapdog
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Originally posted by: TwistedVanity cool I'll try that. PS uninstalling and reinstalling vlc player version 1 fixed the audio sync issues thank you

 

Glad that worked for you. We'll consider all the issues solved, then.



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“If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.” – Robert X. Cringely

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